[Transcript for LKL, with Michael Kane and L. Wood as guests; discussion is the Ramsey interviews given in Aug 00; date = August 30, 2000; source = Justice Watch Forum]
KING: Tonight, he is a fabulous funny man with two hit TV shows. His life has not always been a load of laughs. Drew Carey will join us in Los Angeles, talking trauma and triumph.
But topping the news, inside views on the police Q&A with John and Patsy Ramsey, against their lawyer's advice. In Atlanta, the Ramseys attorney, Lin Wood; in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, Ramsey case special prosecutor Michael Kane. They're both next on LKL.
John and Patsy Ramsey were questioned by Boulder authorities during separate meetings in their attorney's office in Atlanta on Monday and Tuesday.
Joining us from Atlanta is Lin Wood, and from Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, Michael Kane. Michael is on contract to the prosecutor's office in Boulder.
Michael, you were part of the questioning. Did you learn anything yesterday or today that changed your mind, added to the facts, caused you to think differently?
KANE: Well, Larry, I'm not on this program or any other program to talk about the facts of the Ramsey investigation. This is a case that's been going on for three and a half years and we have had a policy I have certainly had a policy that it is not appropriate to talk about the facts. The reason I am agreeing to appear here tonight is because Mr. Wood has been making comments about our approach during these last round of discussions with the Ramseys, and I would like an opportunity to respond to that.
KING: All right, but the question was: Did you learn anything different? Not what did you learn, but did you learn something?
KANE: Well, I mean, you always learn any time you have an opportunity to ask questions of witnesses or suspects, and so, of course, we learned information. I'm not going to deny that.
KING: All right, Lin Wood, what was your objection since, as you say, your clients didn't do it, what did it matter how the questioning went, as long as they didn't do it and answered the questions?
WOOD: Well, even innocent people need to be protected from overzealous and less than objective prosecutors such as Michael Kane.
KING: What did he do?
WOOD: Well, Michael Kane wanted, for example, to go into an area dealing with forensic tests, some test results primarily on fibers, he wanted to tell us what the results of the tests were and then ask a hypothetical question about it. The test results, as they described them, were confusing, they couldn't give us a clear explanation, so I said just show us the results. You know, interrogators often will intentionally mischaracterize things such as forensic tests so that they can go on a fishing expedition.
We are almost four years into this investigation of this family, millions of dollars, special prosecutors, a grand jury for 13 months, Larry. Every inch of this family's life has been examined and reexamined. They have been subjected to police interrogation for over 66 hours. So my question for Michael Kane tonight is, Mr. Kane, are you now ready to state that you are prepared to file criminal charges against John and Patsy Ramsey? It's time for you to answer that question, and you owe that answer to the American public and to this family.
KANE: Mr. Wood, neither I nor Chief Beckner are going to be directed by you, or by your clients, or by anybody else as to when it would be appropriate to file criminal charges. When we reach the point as every prosecutor in this country recognizes, when we reach the point where there is an individual against whom we can prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt, we will file the charges.
WOOD: Well, Mr. Kane, what else do you have to do to investigate John and Patsy Ramsey? What possibly could be left to do? You have collected all the physical evidence from the crime scene. You have done all of the forensic tests known possible to be done. I mean, 66 hours of voluntarily coming in and answering questions from skilled police interrogators what else is there to do? Isn't it time for you to acknowledge that you have done everything you can do, you have exhausted the investigation, and as much as you might like it, it's not there? You want it to be there, Mr. Kane, but it's not there and it's time for you to acknowledge that.
KANE: Well, Mr. Wood
KING: Michael let me interrupt. Michael, it's a fair question only in that the public is already with enough of this already either I guess the old term is put up or shut up. What's the story?
KANE: Well, you know, and I don't ascribe to that at all, Larry. I don't know how many cases, criminal cases Mr. Wood has had, but I have had quite a few, Bruce Levin has had probably twice as many as I have, and Mitch Morris he's had more than that. And we've had cases that have been a week old, we have had cases I tried a murder case that was 15 years old. You don't try a case until you get to the point where the evidence proves it beyond a reasonable doubt. Are we there now? No. Will something happen next week that could put us there? Perhaps. Could something happen in five years that could put us there? Perhaps. But I'm not going to be dictated, nor is the Boulder Police Department going to be dictated, by a demand by Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey or anybody else to put up or shut up. That's not how the criminal justice systems works.
WOOD: So you're acknowledging tonight, Mr. Kane, that after this period of time, this much investigation, this much money, these hours of interrogation, you are admitting tonight that the evidence is still not there, and I guess you're telling us that someday, you're hoping a miracle will occur, and you'll find something to prove your case, despite the fact that you haven't been able to do it in all this period of time. I just think that's a continuing to show a lack of objectivity and fairness to this family.
KANE: You know, we went down to Atlanta, because we have been told by you, Mr. Wood, that the Ramseys were willing to answer any question that was put to them, so long as we weren't plowing over old ground.
WOOD: As long as it was fair.
KANE: And if you'll recall, I wrote you a letter on July 13th, in which I said in response to a letter that you had written the day before, I said to you and if I could read this, Larry, it's important- "In recent conversations with you and your clients, we agreed there would be no need to plow old ground in this case. It serves no purpose in the investigation to pose questions which have already been answered. We did not, however, ever hint at a willingness to roll over and play dead if a question was not to your or your client's liking. We do not conduct interviews with anyone, suspect or witness, under such terms, nor would any other competent law enforcement agency."
After receiving that letter, Mr. Wood, you called me before the ink on your fax machine was dry and assured me that whatever question that we had that was germane to the investigation, your clients were willing to answer.
WOOD: And they did. And they did.
KANE: And then we got down there, we found out otherwise.
WOOD: Not true, absolutely false.
KING: We have a difference here. Are you saying, Michael, questions were not answered?
KANE: Absolutely. Absolutely. I told Mr. Wood, before we left, he said, do you have further questions? I said, I have many, many more questions. But with the parameters that you've set, I'm not going to ask those, because I'm not going to listen to a 10-minute speech every time I ask one of these questions, and that's how it was left.
WOOD: That will not be borne out by the transcript of that interview. The only questions that were not
KANE: Release it.
WOOD: Well, if you would like for me to. I thought Chief Beckner asked me not to.
KANE: You've already done it, Mr. Wood. You've already released it.
KING: Do you have did you release all the transcripts, Lin?
WOOD: No. I released a small segment of an afternoon session that shows some problems that occurred with Mr. Kane's conduct in the interviews. I did that because the Boulder Police Department issued a press release basically praising Mr. Kane's conduct. I found out that Mr. Kane was going to appear on "Good Morning America," and so I decided it was appropriate to let the public see what Mr. Kane did and how he did it, and let the public decide if his conduct was appropriate.
KING: Lin, do you plan to release the whole thing?
WOOD: Well, it just sounds like I've been asked to do so by Mr. Kane, and I will tell you this, Larry
KANE: I'm not asking you to do anything.
WOOD: I thought you just said release it.
KING: Well, why not? Why not release it, Lin? Why not release it, Michael?
WOOD: Listen, I'm more than happy to release it. I'd like to for the public to know exactly what this police department has done to John and Patsy Ramsey.
KING: Well, who can release it? Michael, can you release it?
KANE: I'm we're prosecutors, we work under prosecutorial ethics, and our ethics are, we don't discuss a case, we don't release information about a case.
WOOD: You're on national television discussing the case, so
KANE: And I'm not here talking about the facts of the case, Mr.Wood.
WOOD: What are you here to talk about?
KANE: I did not leave the interviews on Monday afternoon and hold a press conference. I didn't do that. WOOD: We didn't either.
KANE: You did. You did.
KING: I'm a little confused.
WOOD: We went outside to a waiting group of journalists who wanted to have some questions answered, and I thought they were entitled to answers.
KING: Michael, if someone is questioned by prosecutors or police, and says, release it, I don't care, you can a hear everything I said, what could you possibly have against that if the person being questioned wants it released?
KANE: I don't have a problem with it. I'm saying that as prosecutors, we can't release it. If Mr. Wood
KING: Who can't?
WOOD: Sure you can. He's got my authority to release it if you need it. Go right ahead and release it, Mr. Kane, and release
KANE: But, Mr. Wood I don't even have it. I don't have the tape.
WOOD: Release the 48 hours of videotape when you interrogated him for three days in June of 1998. Let the public see what you did to them in those days.
KANE: You have
KING: Let me break here, fellows. Let me get a break. Michael says you can release them, Lin.
We'll come back with Lin Wood and Michael Kane.
WOOD: Mr. Kane, you misrepresent my letter to you, you misrepresent our conversation, you misrepresent your statements that I have imposed conditions let me finish. All the only.
KANE: Mr. Wood, this is a sham.
WOOD: No, it's not.
KANE: This is a big publicity stunt
WOOD: No, it's not.
KANE: on your part. You want you to go out there and say my client answered every question. Well, don't say that, because you're not letting your client answer this question.
KANE: That medallion worked in a school. It was tied into something in the in the principal's office. Is that correct?
PATSY RAMSEY: Right. Right.
KANE: So on way to school it wouldn't work. What
RAMSEY: Well, I
KANE: Why did you allow him to go without any security against Tracy Temple's advice, as a matter of fact, to be transported to and from school when he was most vulnerable.
RAMSEY: Well, he he left the garage in a locked car and drove straight to school, and then was escorted into the school.
KANE: You didn't have any concerns about somebody, a stop sign
WOOD: Mr. Kane
KANE: Michael. What's the objection now?
WOOD: I just wondered, what does this have to do with the investigation into finding who killed JonBenet Ramsey?
KANE: The very fact that I'm asking it means it has something to do with it.
KING: Lin Wood, you released that tape to us, and Michael says you can release all of it; will you?
WOOD: Well, if Michael has authorized me.
KING: He just did.
WOOD: Well, then, Michael Kane I'm saying I have no objection.
I will absolutely accept you request that I release those records, and release those tapes, and we'll release the June of 1998 tapes. And I would challenge you, in return, to tell us now why the grand jury that you were in charge of, after 13 months, refused to issue an indictment in this case. Would you tell us that, please, Mr. Kane?
KING: But you will still release them, right, Lin? He has agreed to let you release.
WOOD: Let me say one thing too, Larry, about the interviews, if you don't mind, because it is important to know
KANE: Mr. Wood, let me ask you
KING: Let him answer that first. Go ahead.
WOOD: Let me finish. During the interviews, John and Patsy Ramsey did, in fact, answer every question, even the questions that I thought were basically a waste of time about whether or not they had adequate protection for their son Burke, then 10 years old, when he returned to school in Boulder in 1997.They did not answer a handful of questions about the forensic tests, but I offered, if they would simply show me the results so that we could verify that they were telling us accurate that we would answer those. But what Mr. Kane does not know is that when he had already left, the other members of the interrogation squad were there, and we didn't have any problems with those six individuals. My clients gave to Chief Beckner, the Boulder Police Department, their direct private telephone numbers, and they told Chief Beckner: We want to have a dialogue with you. We want to work with you. If you think there is something that we can give you, in terms of additional information, pick up the phone and call us, don't even call our lawyer, call us directly. That is cooperation.
KING: I have got a time problem here, Lin. But you will release them, and Michael has given you permission. And now, Michael, he asked you, why to explain why the grand jury did not indict.
KANE: Larry, Mr. Wood, if he has ever practiced criminal law, which I don't know that he ever has, but I assume that he knows, because it is criminal law 101 that no prosecutor can talk about what went on in the grand jury.
WOOD: Sure you can.
KANE: I can absolutely not talk about what went on in the grand jury, and you know it, and you know it, Lin.
WOOD: Mr. Kane, why don't you just tell us why the grand jury didn't take any action. It is a fair question. The public is entitled to know. This is not
KANE: No, I'm not I'll tell you what, Mr. Wood, I'll tell you what if you will go to court with me, and ask the president judge to authorize a release of that information, I will release it.
WOOD: I will walk into that courtroom with you, I may not
KANE: I will sign that petition with you, Mr. Wood, I will sign.
WOOD: Let's get this case
KING: Wait a minute.
WOOD: Let's get this case out fully and fairly before the public.
KING: We have made some progress here tonight. Lin Wood will release all the tapes he has got. And Michael and Lin will go to court together; Lin will ask for the release of the grand jury, Michael will say is OK.
WOOD: I look forward to seeing you in court, Michael.
KANE: I will tell the judge I have no objection. If you say that you will waive rule 6 and allow us to release that information, I will tell the court I have no objection.
WOOD: Let's the truth come out, Mr. Kane.
KANE: All right, very well.
KING: We're going to have you both back for an hour when all of it comes out, and I appreciate you being with us, Lin Wood and Michael Kane, and the dilemma goes on.